(19-09-2018 09:27)Ricardo escribió:A mí lo que me encantaría es que fuera rol de verdad. Que las estadísticas y habilidades del perosnaje que creas tengan más peso que tus habilidades con los controles (ya hemos visto que no) y que carecer de ciertas habilidades te cierre puertas. Pero... sería difícil que saquen un juego así hoy en día, y cuando lo que buscan es llegar al público más amplio posible. Por cierto, voy a comentar algo en el hilo de rpg.

Pero lo que dices de depender de las habilidades del personaje y no de ti a los mandos, ¿también se debería aplicar a los diálogos, los puzzles, o cosas así?¿No?

O sea, si en tu grupo va un mago con una inteligencia excepcional, debería resolver el puzzle solo, y si fuese un guerrero tonto perdido no debería poder solucionarlo. No eres tú, es tu personaje.

Lo mismo con los diálogos .. si una contestación es poco apropiada para una situación tu personaje no la diría, pero si otra opción de diálogo más apropiada.

Yo creo que por delante de ser juegos de rol son juegos. En los que tú decides y tú haces. Entiendo que te limiten si no tienes ciertas habilidades pero no veo mal que tu habilidad a los mandos (o a la hora de resolver puzzles o diálogos) sea importante. Yo lo prefiero.

Hablando de características y habilidades, lo que me gustaría como en cualquier rpg, es que basándote en ella pudieras o no acceder a diálogos, escenas, misiones. Al final, terminas siendo un pupurri de habilidades y raro es el juego donde no puedes hacer todo o casi todo.
Me gustaría un juego que si elijo cebarme en ciberimplantes las relaciones con humanos puros o acceder a sus misiones fuera más difícil o estuvieran vetadas.

Que elegir la opción del carisma me vete en fuerza, que elegir ser periodista sea mal visto por los hackers, que pertenecer a las corporaciones me abra las puertas de los de arriba pero me cierre las de abajo. Cosas así.

(19-09-2018 09:46)Cikio escribió:Pero lo que dices de depender de las habilidades del personaje y no de ti a los mandos, ¿también se debería aplicar a los diálogos, los puzzles, o cosas así?¿No?

O sea, si en tu grupo va un mago con una inteligencia excepcional, debería resolver el puzzle solo, y si fuese un guerrero tonto perdido no debería poder solucionarlo. No eres tú, es tu personaje.

Lo mismo con los diálogos .. si una contestación es poco apropiada para una situación tu personaje no la diría, pero si otra opción de diálogo más apropiada.

Yo creo que por delante de ser juegos de rol son juegos. En los que tú decides y tú haces. Entiendo que te limiten si no tienes ciertas habilidades pero no veo mal que tu habilidad a los mandos (o a la hora de resolver puzzles o diálogos) sea importante. Yo lo prefiero.

Buen ejemplo de la reducción al absurdo, sí señor. Según yo, un verdadero juego de rol debería consistir en crear un personaje, y a partir de ahí el juego se juega sólo y tú miras. Eso es lo que he dicho. Sí. Correcto.

No he dicho que sea lo que has dicho.

Supongo que has jugado juegos de rol. Supongo que sabes lo que es un combate automático basado en estadísticas. O no poder leer un libro de magia por no tener suficiente nivel de inteligencia (cualquier D&D). No estoy hablando de cosas que me imagino, sino de cosas que llevan décadas puestas en práctica en distintos juegos.

(19-09-2018 17:31)Ricardo escribió:Supongo que has jugado juegos de rol. Supongo que sabes lo que es un combate automático basado en estadísticas. O no poder leer un libro de magia por no tener suficiente nivel de inteligencia (cualquier D&D). No estoy hablando de cosas que me imagino, sino de cosas que llevan décadas puestas en práctica en distintos juegos.

Tampoco he dicho que te inventes nada. Supongo que me he expresado muy mal, porque lo único que quería decir es que al igual que se dejan aspectos del juego como la resolución de puzzles, o los diálogos a la elección del jugador, el combate no me parece mal que incluya la habilidad del jugador y seguir siendo rol.

Entiendo que en función de la clase hagas más daño, aciertes más o menos golpes o resistas más o menos, pero jugar yo.

En un juego de lápiz y papel todo se resuelve con dados, habilidades y estadísticas porque es lo que hay. En un videojuego se pueden hacer más cosas pero a la vez menos libertad.

Sí. Pero el caso es que, por lo que he podido ver en el vídeo (y hablo como todos, sin haber jugado el juego) el combate es un FPS de toda la vida. Que igual hay puntos de daño y tal para que parezca "rol" (un poco como el Borderlands si no recuerdo mal), pero eso no es lo que normalmente ofrecía el rol clásico cuando era rol, antes de mezclarse con otros géneros y volverse más comercial. 

Sobre gustos no hay nada escrito. Si a tí te gusta más jugar con tu habilidad primero, y las estadísticas como ayuda adicional después, pues estupendo. Son tus gustos. Y de ahí puede salir un juego muy disfrutable. Pero eso no es rol de la vieja escuela, eso es un híbrido de acción y rol, o un juego de acción con elementos de rol, o llámalo como quieras. Lo que yo he dicho es que a mí me gustaría que fuera un rol un poco más puro de lo que estamos acostumbrados a ver, un poco más en la línea de los Baldur's Gate, Knights of the Old Republic etc... Incluso el combate del primer Witcher era bastante rolero, a pesar de que le metieron un minijuego de coordinación para hacerlo más interactivo. 

Que no va a ser eso, ya lo sé, que va a ser un FPS con elementos de rol, pero bueno, lo comentaba sin más. Me ha dado la impresión de que tú sugerías que yo estaba pidiendo un absurdo.

¿El de abajo es Carl Winslou y Rosalía de rubia?

(17-06-2019 07:19)Jagang escribió:¿El de abajo es Carl Winslou y Rosalía de rubia?

Es el tío Phil.

La nueva demo de Cyberpunk 2077 no se mostrará al público en la Gamescom, sino en la PAX West que se celebra un poco más tarde, del 29 de agosto al 2 de septiembre.

It's going to happen exactly during PAX West. :)

— Marcin Momot (@Marcin360) June 12, 2019

Cyberpunk 2077 es como un Deus Ex, pero a lo bestia según PC Gamer:

https://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-2077s-...ed-budget/

Cita:Cyberpunk 2077's E3 2019 demo looks like Deus Ex with an unlimited budget
What the wider PC Gamer team thought of the Cyberpunk E3 2019 gameplay demo.

Pretty much all of the PC Gamer team on the ground at E3 2019 saw the new behind-closed-doors demo of Cyberpunk 2077. If you want a detailed rundown of everything we saw, check out James's ludicrously comprehensive write-up of the gameplay shown, which will act as a good reference point for what we discuss below. We thought a second opinion on the footage, with a few days to ponder what we saw, might be valuable, though, so below Phil, Tim, and Samuel talk through their take on Cyberpunk 2077's gameplay demo at E3 2019.

Phil: My big E3 hot take is that many of the most exciting games I saw were, in some form or another, Deus Ex. Cyberpunk 2077 was the most Deus Ex of them all. It might be more Deus Ex than any Deus Ex game. Does that make sense? I'm still dealing with jet lag. I am very tired.

Tim: This makes total sense to me because if you'd squinted slightly during the demo, it almost could have been a new Deus Ex you were looking at. Albeit one made with a budget big enough to buy a gun that could shoot the moon out of orbit. I think this year my biggest takeaway was a slight sense of relief that the combat looked more palatable. Not that combat has ever been the biggest reason to play a CD Projekt Red game, but I was pretty worried that Cyberpunk will suffer in comparison to the inexhaustible well of good shooters on PC, purely on the basis of the first-person perspective it's chosen. I'm less worried now, if still not entirely worry-free.

Samuel: This showing of Cyberpunk felt more like a real game to me, and less like magic than the E3 demo did last year. Instead of the populated region of Night City we saw last year, we had an abandoned-looking, half-complete tourists' resort as a backdrop with almost no traffic. The highlight of the demo was CDPR demonstrating the multiple ways (stealthy, shooty) you can tackle a quest set in a big abandoned mall—how you can distract enemies with vending machines, or hack a boxing robot to beat the shit out of an enemy NPC. It's extremely Deus Ex—and I consider this a good thing, because the last two Deus Ex games never approached these kinds of production values.

Phil: Yeah, when people asked what I thought of the demo at the show, my pithy summary was just "It's going to be a videogame". That's hardly piercing analysis, but I genuinely thought last year's demo looked astounding, to the point that it didn't feel like something I'd be able to play for a long, long time. This year Cyberpunk 2077 looked like something that feels realistically achievable in 2020. I can imagine playing this. The approaches CDPR demoed, while varied, were simply detailed, incredibly granular versions of the games I've played before. That might sound disappointing, or that I'm trying to downplay what it'll be, but—assuming they get it right—this has a good chance of being my favourite game of next year. I love RPGs. I love immersive sims. This brings together elements of both in an incredibly high-end package. That it's likely not also redefining what a game can be is a price I'm happy to pay.

Samuel: I felt similarly, that this game fits firmly in the lineage of stealth shooters I've played and enjoyed in the past. And honestly, I would much rather this look like a computer game from this decade than something ethereal and unattainable.

Phil: What did you think about the combat? I know Tim isn't a huge fan of how it looks, but Tim is obsessed with Destiny and you're just not going to get a Bungie-level gunfeel in something so focused on variety of approach. I thought it looked broadly fine, in a similar way to how Deus Ex: Mankind Divided's combat was functional and not at all the main point of the game. Also, the demo showed off some cool weapons. The nanowire, which slices up enemies into so many limbs, looked brutal. And some of the hacking powers you can unleash on enemies are almost ghoulishly gruesome.

Samuel: Ooh, I liked the nanowire. That was a neat-looking novelty weapon that fits the world extremely well. When it comes to guns, it's maybe telling that it didn't make as much of an impression as the stealth gameplay did to me (which, to be fair, is the way I'd want to play), but I'm loathe to get too down on shooting that I haven't even tried yet. I liked that V could rip the gun out of the enemy turret—that's the shit I live for.

Tim: The weird thing with the nanowire for me is it didn't seemed to connect correctly. It kinda flopped out and then a second later the limbs started tumbling. I dunno. Make no mistake, I am pro-nanowire as a position, it just needs tightening up.

Samuel: What did you think of the idea that there will be these sort of 'boss' encounters in Cyberpunk 2077? There's one at the end of this demo, Sasquatch, an enemy with a h the case (and it might just have been specifically for the demo), then yeah, I have some concerns. Certainly the worst moments of Eidos Montreal's Deus Exes were when they tried to fight against the systemic design in favour of scripted set piece moments. But hey, maybe it's not. And, more importantly, that fight was entirely optional. Stealthy players were free to sneak on through, which suggests CDPR aren't going to be precious about you fighting powerful enemies.

Phil: Yeah, there was a bit where the boss started to hack V, which effectively put the fight on a timer. I can't say for sure, but it felt like a scripted moment. If that is the case (and it might just have been specifically for the demo), then yeah, I have some concerns. Certainly the worst moments of Eidos Montreal's Deus Exes were when they tried to fight against the systemic design in favour of scripted setpiece moments. But hey, maybe it's not. And, more importantly, that fight was entirely optional. Stealthy players were free to sneak on through, which suggests CDPR aren't going to be precious about you fighting powerful enemies.

Samuel: That's awesome. I definitely didn't miss that detail because I was tired as hell. As with last year, I was incredibly impressed by the presentation of story—excellent voice actors, fantastic facial animations. Keanu is everywhere in this demo, which follows up on the promise of his arrival on-stage at the Xbox briefing. I also liked the contrast of Pacifica with the area of Night City we saw last year: a skybox of half-completed high-rises with idyllic tourism billboards by the sea gave this a real sense of place. I like how the different factions in Cyberpunk feel like they have their own agendas, with you caught in the middle of them. I like how V gets in a bathtub of ice at the end of the demo to access cyberspace. I liked that ludicrously busy upgrades screen, and the lack of forced classes.

Phil: Keanu saying "Really think they give a rat's dick about how you look?" was definitely a moment.

Samuel: I didn't think much of the CG trailer that was released last week—but this demo is legit. That looks like a fun game, however you approach it, and you can still break through materials in the environment, which I was dubious would stay in from last year's demo (I assume it's only certain surfaces, as it's glass that breaks apart in this demo).

Tim: The other thing I want to note, lest I be cast as the contrarian who just isn't that into the most exciting game in development, is that it definitely feels like they're going to deliver a world you really want to soak in (ice bath notwithstanding). If you think back to when we were being demoed The Witcher 3, it really was a mere snapshot of the eventual scope we received, and I expect the same here.

Phil: Yeah, this was a confident 50-or-so minutes of footage that was packed full of promising details. We've barely even had chance to cover the RPG progression systems, of which there are many. The fact that classes are loosely defined, letting you take abilities from each. The way your reputation unlocks new missions and new software that grants additional combat skills. The way your choices provide specific conversation options tailored to your build, and the suggestion that these could dramatically change how you complete a quest. It was so packed it became quite difficult to follow—the resolution became quite the web of people hacking other people and double-crossing each other. I look forward to picking it apart in detail when it's released to the public at PAX this September. But even more, I look forward to playing it next year. As a Deus Ex fan, Cyberpunk 2077 feels like the most exciting thing on the horizon.

Akira 2077.




Cyberpunk Red será la nueva versión del juego de mesa que saldrá el 1 de agosto. Costará 29,99 dólares.

Porque nunca he jugado a juegos de mesa así y no tengo a nadie con quién hacerlo (no es algo que se mueva en mi grupo de amigos), pero tengo tanto hype del videojuego que pillaba el de mesa de cabeza.