17-11-2011 22:33
IndustryGamers ha entrevistado a Warren Spector, y como siempre dice algunas cosas interesantes. Yo voy a traducir las tres respuestas que más me han llamado la atención, pero dejo debajo la entrevista completa.
IndustryGamers: ¿En qué año empezaste tu primer proyecto electrónico? ¿Cómo de grande fue tu primer equipo? ¿Y su presupuesto?
Warren Spector: Salté de los juegos de tablero a los juegos electrónicos en 1989. Trabajé en algunas cosas simultáneamente - Ultima VI, con Richard Garriott, y Space Rogue, con Paul Neurath. (Eso fue una educación, ¡déjame decirte!) El primer juego que dirigí fue Bad Blood, con Chris Roberts como Productor Ejecutivo y Jeff George como Director Creativo. Los equipos entonces eran de alrededor de 10-12 personas. ¿Los presupuestos? ¡Pequeños! Recuerdo que pusieron mi cabeza en bandeja de plata con Martian Dreams, otro juego en el que trabajé al principio, por sobrepasar mi presupuesto de 225.000 dólares - Gasté 273.000$. ¡Tengo ese número grabado en mi cerebro! hoy en día, los que trabajan en un triple A gastan eso en una semana, ¡incluso en menos tiempo!
IG: ¿Cómo han afectado estos cambios a tu diseño de juegos? ¿Son los cambios positivos, o negativos, o un poco de los dos?
WS: Unos presupuestos y unos plazos mayores significan que la gente y las compañías que aportan el dinero tienen más y más control sobre lo que se produce y también cómo se produce. Y es inevitable que con un riesgo más grande viene una precaución mayor. Aún hay innovación, pero sin los títulos competitivos y una claramente definida y existente audiencia, conseguir la luz verde para un juego es más difícil de lo que era. Por otro lado, hay una creciente escena indie donde la gente puede probar cosas nuevas y los negocios con los móbiles parecen un poco como la "frontera" y menos civilizados - hay sitios para jugar por ahí, aún. En cuanto a si los cambios son positivos o negativos, no lo sé - probablemente ambos. Personalmente, no estoy muy interesado en hacer o jugar las versiones bien hechas de juegos bien conocidos. Pero hay mucha gente que voluntariamente compran y juegan cualquier nuevo y más refinado juego de tiros que aparece.
IG: ¿Están los juegos mejorando en conseguir encganchar emocionalmente al jugador? ¿Veremos juegos que tengan el impacto emocional de una buena película?
WS: Creo que es el momento de acostar esta pregunta y nunca volver a preguntarla. Está claro que los juegos pueden tener un impacto emocional enorme. Deberías ver algunos de los correos de fans que hemos recibido por Disney Epic Mickey ÔÇô te emociona de una manera que nunca he experimentado en vida profesional (y hay mucha, ¡lo qué es bonito!). Y puedo señalarte... todos podemos señalar.... experiencias con los juegos que nos han afectado a todos de maneras que van más allá del subidón de adrenalina o el reto intelectual que los juegos tipícamente causan.
IndustryGamers: What year was your first electronic game project? How big was your first game development team? How big was the budget?
Warren Spector: I made the leap from tabletop games into electronic games in 1989. I worked on a few things simultaneously ÔÇô Ultima VI, with Richard Garriott, and Space Rogue, with Paul Neurath. (That was an education, let me tell you!) The first game I pretty much ran on my own was Bad Blood, with Chris Roberts as sort of an Executive Producer and Jeff George as Creative Director. Teams back then were about 10-12 people. Budgets? Tiny! I remember getting my head handed to me on Martian Dreams, another early game I worked on, for going over my $225,000 budget ÔÇô I spent $273,000. That number is burned in my brain! Nowadays, folks working in the triple-A game space spend that in a week, sometimes less!
IG: How does that compare to budgets and team sizes nowadays?
WS: There is no comparison. All told, we had nearly 300 people working on Disney Epic Mickey at its peak. Without getting specific, game budgets can easily top $30 million, with plenty of games costing more. ThatÔÇÖs a huge change ÔÇô the skills you develop working on small teams with low budgets, the management and direction techniques you use, are hardly relevant. I often feel like IÔÇÖm not even in the same business I got into back in the ÔÇÿ80s. Of course, IÔÇÖm only talking about the traditional, triple-A space here. One of the coolest things about the game business right now is that the range of game styles, of distribution methods and development options is MUCH broader now than it used to be. You can be one person in a garage and do something innovative that finds an audience.
IG: How have these changes affected game design? Are the changes positive, or negative, or something of both?
WS: Bigger budgets and longer timelines mean the people and companies doing the funding have more and more control over what gets produced, as well as how it gets produced. And itÔÇÖs just inevitable that with greater risk comes greater caution. ThereÔÇÖs still some innovation, but without ÔÇ£compsÔÇØ (competitive titles) and a clearly defined, already existing audience, getting a game greenlit is definitely harder than it was back in the day. Again, though, thereÔÇÖs a thriving indie scene where people can try new things and the mobile business seems a bit more like a ÔÇ£frontierÔÇØ and less like civilization ÔÇô thereÔÇÖs room to play around there, still. As far as whether the changes are positive or negative, I donÔÇÖt know ÔÇô probably both. Speaking personally, IÔÇÖm not much interested in making or playing well-executed versions of well understood games. But there are plenty of people willing to buy and play whatever new, more refined shooter that comes along.
IG: What are the biggest changes in the industry you've seen?
WS: NothingÔÇÖs bigger than the budget and team size changes IÔÇÖve already talked about. I often find myself longing for the days of 10-12 person teams, where communication and vision-propagation were just insanely hard and not nearly impossible! After that, the biggest change is our continuing march toward mainstream acceptance. When I was getting started, games werenÔÇÖt generally accepted as entertainment for ÔÇ£normalÔÇØ people. They were fine for geeks and nerds and outsiders (like me!...) but that was it. In a way, that gave us more latitude when it came to genres and all, since no one was paying much attention. Nowadays, when itÔÇÖs tough to find people who donÔÇÖt engage in gaming of some sort on a regular basis, everyoneÔÇÖs paying attention. ItÔÇÖs kind of cool but also kind of sad, in a way.
IG: Do you think consoles as we know them are doomed? Will there be a successful new console generation in the next few years, or is the industry about to undergo a fundamental change?
WS: Predictions are a foolÔÇÖs game! I donÔÇÖt have any great insight into the future of consoles. It seems clear thereÔÇÖs already fundamental change going on, what with the rise of mobile gaming and social gaming. Looking at the growth trend, those areas are increasing in importance at a pretty incredible rate, while consoles are growing more slowly, if at all. But looking at revenue generation, itÔÇÖs hard to see consoles going away any time in the near future. There are clearly several more good years ahead.
IG: How do you think social and mobile games are changing the industry?
WS: Social and mobile are changing games in all sorts of ways, some good, some bad. On the plus side, these two game platforms or styles are growing the audience for gaming. There are so many more people interested in interactive entertainment now than there were before social and mobile came along. Playing games has become so commonplace the word ÔÇ£gamerÔÇØ seems almost anachronistic, if not unnecessary. On the downside, social and mobile have changed expectations of game costs ÔÇô both for developers making games and consumers playing them. When you can only charge so much for a game before you lose sales to competitors and you can only spend so much making games. Selfishly, I look at social and mobile games and think, ÔÇ£DidnÔÇÖt I just spend 20+ years of my life trying to get away from graphics and gameplay models like this?ÔÇØ It seems inevitable that social and mobile will be a big part of our gaming future, thatÔÇÖs for sure.
IG: Are games getting smarter, more ambitious artistically, or are the pressures of massive budgets forcing less risk-taking?
WS: I donÔÇÖt think thereÔÇÖs one, simple answer to this question, for the simple reason that there isnÔÇÖt a single, monolithic thing called ÔÇ£gamesÔÇØ anymore. Frankly, I doubt there ever was such a thing. If youÔÇÖre talking about triple-A, boxed console games sold at retail, I think youÔÇÖre seeing somewhat less ambition than in the past, just because the stakes are so high. Even there, though, plenty of developers are taking risks and doing cool stuff. I think the mobile and social spaces need to be more aggressive, creatively ÔÇô trusting creatives a bit more and metrics a bit less would be a start. On the indie scene, the digital download, PC scene or the XBLA scene, things are pretty exciting. ThereÔÇÖs plenty going on thatÔÇÖs artistically ambitious and risky, if you take the time to look.
IG: Have the game industry's changes over the past 25 years surprised you or disappointed you? In what ways?
WS: IÔÇÖm constantly amazed at our influence and cultural credibility. Games are everywhere these days. WeÔÇÖve become cultural touchstones as compelling as any movie, television show, band or book. If youÔÇÖd told me twenty years ago that weÔÇÖd be as influential and ubiquitous as we are, IÔÇÖd have said you were nuts. ThatÔÇÖs pretty cool! As far as disappointments go, I guess IÔÇÖd have to say that I really am sad that single-player story-based games have reached a level of sophistication that doesnÔÇÖt embarrass me JUST in time to have MMOs, social and mobile change the game, as it were. Just as weÔÇÖve figured some stuff out, itÔÇÖs become increasingly difficult to make the kinds of games I want to make. ThatÔÇÖs a little frustrating. But you canÔÇÖt argue with the realities of the marketplace, and there are plenty of cool challenges ahead.
IG: Are games getting any better at engaging players emotionally? Will we ever see games that have the emotional impact of a good film?
WS: I think its time to put this question to bed and never ask it again. Its clear that games can have huge emotional impact. You should see some of the fan mail weve gotten on Disney Epic Mickey  its heartfelt and emotional in a way and at a level Ive never experienced in my professional life (and theres a lot of it, which is nice!). And I can point to we ALL can point to game experiences that affected us in ways that go far beyond the simple adrenaline rush or intellectual challenge games typically elicit.
IG: What's your prediction for the next 10 or 20 years for the game industry? Artistically, technically, and financially? Is gaming really going to become as ubiquitous a medium as television?
WS: Man, I hate making predictions! I guess IÔÇÖd argue that, in our own way, weÔÇÖre already as ubiquitous as television. But making that case requires thinking a little bit of pretzel logic involving revenue generated and hours spent playing and so on. The implicit question ÔÇô the one youÔÇÖre really asking - is, I think, whether games will supplant television as the central entertainment medium of the 21st century in the way that television supplanted radio and movies in the last century. There, I think, the answer is no. The internet, speaking generally, may replace television, but I donÔÇÖt believe interactive entertainment will ever take the place of linear media. The fact is that games are work. You have to, you know, interact, to make things happen. And as fun and appealing as that is, most people donÔÇÖt want to work for their entertainment ÔÇô they want someone ELSE to do the work. It seems inevitable that some interactive elements will spill over into linear media, and it seems likely that delivery systems for linear content will change, but games as games are a different animal, complements to linear media, not replacements for them.
IG: What can you tell us about your next project? How do you feel about it right now?
WS: I can tell you IÔÇÖm really excited about future projects from Junction Point. ThereÔÇÖll certainly be some surprises. Beyond that, youÔÇÖre gettingÔÇÖ nothinÔÇÖ outta me!
IG: Well, you can't blame me for trying!
IndustryGamers: ¿En qué año empezaste tu primer proyecto electrónico? ¿Cómo de grande fue tu primer equipo? ¿Y su presupuesto?
Warren Spector: Salté de los juegos de tablero a los juegos electrónicos en 1989. Trabajé en algunas cosas simultáneamente - Ultima VI, con Richard Garriott, y Space Rogue, con Paul Neurath. (Eso fue una educación, ¡déjame decirte!) El primer juego que dirigí fue Bad Blood, con Chris Roberts como Productor Ejecutivo y Jeff George como Director Creativo. Los equipos entonces eran de alrededor de 10-12 personas. ¿Los presupuestos? ¡Pequeños! Recuerdo que pusieron mi cabeza en bandeja de plata con Martian Dreams, otro juego en el que trabajé al principio, por sobrepasar mi presupuesto de 225.000 dólares - Gasté 273.000$. ¡Tengo ese número grabado en mi cerebro! hoy en día, los que trabajan en un triple A gastan eso en una semana, ¡incluso en menos tiempo!
IG: ¿Cómo han afectado estos cambios a tu diseño de juegos? ¿Son los cambios positivos, o negativos, o un poco de los dos?
WS: Unos presupuestos y unos plazos mayores significan que la gente y las compañías que aportan el dinero tienen más y más control sobre lo que se produce y también cómo se produce. Y es inevitable que con un riesgo más grande viene una precaución mayor. Aún hay innovación, pero sin los títulos competitivos y una claramente definida y existente audiencia, conseguir la luz verde para un juego es más difícil de lo que era. Por otro lado, hay una creciente escena indie donde la gente puede probar cosas nuevas y los negocios con los móbiles parecen un poco como la "frontera" y menos civilizados - hay sitios para jugar por ahí, aún. En cuanto a si los cambios son positivos o negativos, no lo sé - probablemente ambos. Personalmente, no estoy muy interesado en hacer o jugar las versiones bien hechas de juegos bien conocidos. Pero hay mucha gente que voluntariamente compran y juegan cualquier nuevo y más refinado juego de tiros que aparece.
IG: ¿Están los juegos mejorando en conseguir encganchar emocionalmente al jugador? ¿Veremos juegos que tengan el impacto emocional de una buena película?
WS: Creo que es el momento de acostar esta pregunta y nunca volver a preguntarla. Está claro que los juegos pueden tener un impacto emocional enorme. Deberías ver algunos de los correos de fans que hemos recibido por Disney Epic Mickey ÔÇô te emociona de una manera que nunca he experimentado en vida profesional (y hay mucha, ¡lo qué es bonito!). Y puedo señalarte... todos podemos señalar.... experiencias con los juegos que nos han afectado a todos de maneras que van más allá del subidón de adrenalina o el reto intelectual que los juegos tipícamente causan.
IndustryGamers: What year was your first electronic game project? How big was your first game development team? How big was the budget?
Warren Spector: I made the leap from tabletop games into electronic games in 1989. I worked on a few things simultaneously ÔÇô Ultima VI, with Richard Garriott, and Space Rogue, with Paul Neurath. (That was an education, let me tell you!) The first game I pretty much ran on my own was Bad Blood, with Chris Roberts as sort of an Executive Producer and Jeff George as Creative Director. Teams back then were about 10-12 people. Budgets? Tiny! I remember getting my head handed to me on Martian Dreams, another early game I worked on, for going over my $225,000 budget ÔÇô I spent $273,000. That number is burned in my brain! Nowadays, folks working in the triple-A game space spend that in a week, sometimes less!
IG: How does that compare to budgets and team sizes nowadays?
WS: There is no comparison. All told, we had nearly 300 people working on Disney Epic Mickey at its peak. Without getting specific, game budgets can easily top $30 million, with plenty of games costing more. ThatÔÇÖs a huge change ÔÇô the skills you develop working on small teams with low budgets, the management and direction techniques you use, are hardly relevant. I often feel like IÔÇÖm not even in the same business I got into back in the ÔÇÿ80s. Of course, IÔÇÖm only talking about the traditional, triple-A space here. One of the coolest things about the game business right now is that the range of game styles, of distribution methods and development options is MUCH broader now than it used to be. You can be one person in a garage and do something innovative that finds an audience.
IG: How have these changes affected game design? Are the changes positive, or negative, or something of both?
WS: Bigger budgets and longer timelines mean the people and companies doing the funding have more and more control over what gets produced, as well as how it gets produced. And itÔÇÖs just inevitable that with greater risk comes greater caution. ThereÔÇÖs still some innovation, but without ÔÇ£compsÔÇØ (competitive titles) and a clearly defined, already existing audience, getting a game greenlit is definitely harder than it was back in the day. Again, though, thereÔÇÖs a thriving indie scene where people can try new things and the mobile business seems a bit more like a ÔÇ£frontierÔÇØ and less like civilization ÔÇô thereÔÇÖs room to play around there, still. As far as whether the changes are positive or negative, I donÔÇÖt know ÔÇô probably both. Speaking personally, IÔÇÖm not much interested in making or playing well-executed versions of well understood games. But there are plenty of people willing to buy and play whatever new, more refined shooter that comes along.
IG: What are the biggest changes in the industry you've seen?
WS: NothingÔÇÖs bigger than the budget and team size changes IÔÇÖve already talked about. I often find myself longing for the days of 10-12 person teams, where communication and vision-propagation were just insanely hard and not nearly impossible! After that, the biggest change is our continuing march toward mainstream acceptance. When I was getting started, games werenÔÇÖt generally accepted as entertainment for ÔÇ£normalÔÇØ people. They were fine for geeks and nerds and outsiders (like me!...) but that was it. In a way, that gave us more latitude when it came to genres and all, since no one was paying much attention. Nowadays, when itÔÇÖs tough to find people who donÔÇÖt engage in gaming of some sort on a regular basis, everyoneÔÇÖs paying attention. ItÔÇÖs kind of cool but also kind of sad, in a way.
IG: Do you think consoles as we know them are doomed? Will there be a successful new console generation in the next few years, or is the industry about to undergo a fundamental change?
WS: Predictions are a foolÔÇÖs game! I donÔÇÖt have any great insight into the future of consoles. It seems clear thereÔÇÖs already fundamental change going on, what with the rise of mobile gaming and social gaming. Looking at the growth trend, those areas are increasing in importance at a pretty incredible rate, while consoles are growing more slowly, if at all. But looking at revenue generation, itÔÇÖs hard to see consoles going away any time in the near future. There are clearly several more good years ahead.
IG: How do you think social and mobile games are changing the industry?
WS: Social and mobile are changing games in all sorts of ways, some good, some bad. On the plus side, these two game platforms or styles are growing the audience for gaming. There are so many more people interested in interactive entertainment now than there were before social and mobile came along. Playing games has become so commonplace the word ÔÇ£gamerÔÇØ seems almost anachronistic, if not unnecessary. On the downside, social and mobile have changed expectations of game costs ÔÇô both for developers making games and consumers playing them. When you can only charge so much for a game before you lose sales to competitors and you can only spend so much making games. Selfishly, I look at social and mobile games and think, ÔÇ£DidnÔÇÖt I just spend 20+ years of my life trying to get away from graphics and gameplay models like this?ÔÇØ It seems inevitable that social and mobile will be a big part of our gaming future, thatÔÇÖs for sure.
IG: Are games getting smarter, more ambitious artistically, or are the pressures of massive budgets forcing less risk-taking?
WS: I donÔÇÖt think thereÔÇÖs one, simple answer to this question, for the simple reason that there isnÔÇÖt a single, monolithic thing called ÔÇ£gamesÔÇØ anymore. Frankly, I doubt there ever was such a thing. If youÔÇÖre talking about triple-A, boxed console games sold at retail, I think youÔÇÖre seeing somewhat less ambition than in the past, just because the stakes are so high. Even there, though, plenty of developers are taking risks and doing cool stuff. I think the mobile and social spaces need to be more aggressive, creatively ÔÇô trusting creatives a bit more and metrics a bit less would be a start. On the indie scene, the digital download, PC scene or the XBLA scene, things are pretty exciting. ThereÔÇÖs plenty going on thatÔÇÖs artistically ambitious and risky, if you take the time to look.
IG: Have the game industry's changes over the past 25 years surprised you or disappointed you? In what ways?
WS: IÔÇÖm constantly amazed at our influence and cultural credibility. Games are everywhere these days. WeÔÇÖve become cultural touchstones as compelling as any movie, television show, band or book. If youÔÇÖd told me twenty years ago that weÔÇÖd be as influential and ubiquitous as we are, IÔÇÖd have said you were nuts. ThatÔÇÖs pretty cool! As far as disappointments go, I guess IÔÇÖd have to say that I really am sad that single-player story-based games have reached a level of sophistication that doesnÔÇÖt embarrass me JUST in time to have MMOs, social and mobile change the game, as it were. Just as weÔÇÖve figured some stuff out, itÔÇÖs become increasingly difficult to make the kinds of games I want to make. ThatÔÇÖs a little frustrating. But you canÔÇÖt argue with the realities of the marketplace, and there are plenty of cool challenges ahead.
IG: Are games getting any better at engaging players emotionally? Will we ever see games that have the emotional impact of a good film?
WS: I think its time to put this question to bed and never ask it again. Its clear that games can have huge emotional impact. You should see some of the fan mail weve gotten on Disney Epic Mickey  its heartfelt and emotional in a way and at a level Ive never experienced in my professional life (and theres a lot of it, which is nice!). And I can point to we ALL can point to game experiences that affected us in ways that go far beyond the simple adrenaline rush or intellectual challenge games typically elicit.
IG: What's your prediction for the next 10 or 20 years for the game industry? Artistically, technically, and financially? Is gaming really going to become as ubiquitous a medium as television?
WS: Man, I hate making predictions! I guess IÔÇÖd argue that, in our own way, weÔÇÖre already as ubiquitous as television. But making that case requires thinking a little bit of pretzel logic involving revenue generated and hours spent playing and so on. The implicit question ÔÇô the one youÔÇÖre really asking - is, I think, whether games will supplant television as the central entertainment medium of the 21st century in the way that television supplanted radio and movies in the last century. There, I think, the answer is no. The internet, speaking generally, may replace television, but I donÔÇÖt believe interactive entertainment will ever take the place of linear media. The fact is that games are work. You have to, you know, interact, to make things happen. And as fun and appealing as that is, most people donÔÇÖt want to work for their entertainment ÔÇô they want someone ELSE to do the work. It seems inevitable that some interactive elements will spill over into linear media, and it seems likely that delivery systems for linear content will change, but games as games are a different animal, complements to linear media, not replacements for them.
IG: What can you tell us about your next project? How do you feel about it right now?
WS: I can tell you IÔÇÖm really excited about future projects from Junction Point. ThereÔÇÖll certainly be some surprises. Beyond that, youÔÇÖre gettingÔÇÖ nothinÔÇÖ outta me!
IG: Well, you can't blame me for trying!
